See Rise and Sprawl as well.
There exists in Winnipeg a myth. A myth that parking is not available in ample quantities downtown. A myth perhaps rivaled by world-class counterparts such as the Loch Ness Monster and the Yeti.
Not like this is a new subje'ct, oh no, far from it. I've blogged about it several times, most notably here. What will no doubt be a rubber-stamping of approval for demolishing the Gran Exchange Annex building will represent another nail in Downtown Winnipeg's coffin.
For IF ONLY WE COULD PARK OUR CARS, downtown would be a THRIVING place!
I went down there. I saw for myself. I got out of my car and walked from Main Street to Waterfront, right past the aforementioned building. What is beside the Grain Exchange Annex, you ask? PARKING! What's across the street, a little closer to the river? PARKING! Let's ask ourselves a more revealing question about the nature of downtown and the myth of parking.
What is full in downtown Winnipeg?
......
Not parking lots. Not parkades.
If Winnipeg has such a parking shortage, then shouldn't every parking lot be full? Shouldn't every parkade be full? Every street spot, every metre, maxed out? Shouldn't parking be 5 dollars an hour?
But they aren't full. Even during the day, for you "oh it's true, the horror, I cannot find parking downtown during the day" people who leave such comments on my website. I was downtown just the other day, and witnessed with my own two eyes, surface parking lot after surface lot, half empty, only a single block away from Graham Mall. The Bay Parkade, easily half empty. I'm sure Portage Place Parkade was empty too. Every parkade I see downtown, has but a few cars in it, barely used, only ever full out of necessity during a sell-out event at the MTS Centre.
You need parking at the Grain Exchange building? For what? Where are you going to go? No parking in the East Exchange? Seriously? What's there that you're going to go to? Oh yeah, I forgot...
IF ONLY WE COULD PARK OUR CARS, downtown would be a THRIVING place!
Remember when I said I got out of my car and walked from Main Street to Waterfront? How many people even DO THAT?! The truth is, we could put up 6 parkades on every block and City Hall would still bulldoze historic buildings for parkades, because apparently, in Winnipeg, if your store doesn't have it's own parking lot then there is no parking available. I maintain that this attitude stems from the fact that everywhere else in this city, that is, suburbia, one drives their car directly to their destination and parks their car for free.
How is it that Corydon Avenue is devoid of parkades yet enjoys the most pedestrian traffic of anywhere in Winnipeg? How is it that Osborne Village is devoid of parkades yet is full of busy businesses?
....How is it that DOWNTOWN, an URBAN environment...is FULL of parking and parkades and is devoid of ANY pedestrian traffic?
We all know that downtown is currently basically a giant parking lot, where people come to during the day, and leave after they are done working. How do we change this to a place where people come to work during the day, and stay after to shop or enjoy themselves? By adding more parking?
The fact is that if we add more parking, then all we will have is MORE parking lots. LESS places to WALK TO! Who wants to walk by parkade after parkade, surface lot after surface lot? That's why people don't walk in between big box stores, they DRIVE! There's nothing to see here, move along! With all this parking there is no cohesiveness, there is nothing making downtown a single, unified destination.
How is it that in Winnipeg, we want a "revitalized" downtown with all kinds of little shops and restaurants and bars and such to walk to, how is it that we want an urban environment so bad, and destroy any chance of that ever existing by putting parking lots up everywhere?
The fact that anybody is even considering the idea that more parking downtown would somehow benefit Winnipeg, is pathetic. What really turns my stomach is something that Rise and Sprawl linked to the other day, from the Downtown Biz. I mean, these guys are supposed to be for downtown, right? You'd think they have a handle on the fact that Winnipeg is being choked to death with parking lots, but apparently not:
There is a strong desire for downtown parking to more adequately and further act as a tool or an enabler to further community economic development and downtown revitalization.
A tool? Ya don't say. Guess what, Downtown Biz people? Destroying your already existing streetscape for a parkade is not a tool for further economic community development, it's a tool for deconstructing an urban environment. If Downtown Biz was right, the WRHA building at Main and Logan would be a bustling centre of economic community development, what with that parkade and all. Who wants to walk beside a parkade? Even the Civic Centre Parkade is so horrendously atrocious it is more attractive to avoid walking on that side of the street.
Parkades are symbolic. They are symblolic because they represent something that will never change as long as we keep building parkades: the habit of Winnipeggers to park, go to their destination, return to their car, and leave. To continue building parkades is to continue to say "we don't want our downtown to be our destination, we want our parking spot to be."
It seems as though I be saying "downtown as a destination" forever.
Corydon is a destination. The Forks is a destination. Osborne Village is a destination.
Why isn't downtown a destination?
Consider this, Downtown Biz. How likely is "downtown revitalization" to happen if there are more parking spaces downtown than people living downtown?
Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
21 comments:
Why isn't downtown a Destination ?
Because we are to busy building infrastructure to get to a suburb. Even one of your professors ( leo I think ) goes on and on about all the businesses that would sprout up along the BRT to the new Center of the Universe.
Wouldn't all those businesses be better suited to downtown? Maybe so much businesses that those parkades and vast parking lots would be infilled.
Parkades provide a return to their owners. Unlike empty buildings which cost money. Since we are doing everything in our means to blow 500 million plus to get out of downtown, I don't blame them one bit.
Would be nice if the Faculty of Fine Arts or Music built their new building down in the Exchange, but NOOOOO, that doesn't make sense , after all , its easier to get to Fort Richmond using the BRT then getting to the Centennial Hall.
And think of all those infill businesses Leo dreams of. LOL.
It's normally not advisable to berate people who actually read (and comment) on your blog but hopefully one day you wake up to the City you envision.
Graham doesn't make is his living off this blog, so he can berate anyone he wants. Somehow I don't think it affects his bottom line.
As far as parking lots making more money for its owners? Well as Graham pointed out, the parking market is over saturated with minimal demand....so how much money is to be made, really?
Save for Montreal, the turn of the 20th century architecture in this city is what gives positive positioning against other cities in the rest of Canada. That building is one of the last vestiges of the great boom that Winnipeg enjoyed until the begin of its decline almost 100 years ago.
More needs to be done to promote this incredible architecture outside of Winnipeg; when they're all gone what will be the positioning point? Slurpees? Violent rampages in the ghetto? Winnipeg has a truly unique and potentially profitable marketing opportunity, but if this trend continues then that will be gone.
Fortunately, there will be lots of places for no one to park.
One hundred and seventy-seven: that is the number of parking spots were available at the City-owned parkade at the Library at 2:30PM today. Whatever reasons why people think downtown needs more parking spots, demand is not one of them.
@ Nobody
Leo is not one of my professors. I am a biologist at the U of M.
Surface parking lots provide a return, yes. Because the City charges peanuts for taxes and there is no maintenance. A parkade however, may cost into the millions of dollars, and FEW people will EVER park there because it costs more than parking on the street. If there is ever a return, it is decades from when the parkade is constructed.
I am confused as to why you continue to live in a fantasy world about moving U of M faculties downtown. The U of M has just finished OK-ing the move to Tache Hall. And why would you even bother moving such a great campus with 100 year old buildings and a great environment, downtown, at this point? I agree in theory downtown is the place for post secondary schools but, reality check: U of M campus was built in Fort Garry in 1877, it is not going anywhere, and you are the only person entertaining a notion that it should.
@ Dave
Destination Winnipeg: come shop at our IKEA, enjoy our world class museums, Upper Fort Garry, and ample downtown parking. And don't forget to stop at a genuine Winnipeg 7-11 for a slurpee at the slurpee capital of the world!
@ Rise and Sprawl
Heh, I've thought about doing something like that. Last Friday I parked at the Bay parkade at 1:30pm. I got a spot on ground level! In a city strapped for parking space, getting a parking spot on ground level should be a George Castanzaism.
nice rant. if only somebody at city hall were listening...
Everyone please checkout Kenton's take on the issue in particular referencing parking in other cities. I was with Kenton in Chicago, and he is right, spots are at a premium and I know that a to buy a primo spot for one year is $30,000 in some places in the city.
So it can be assumed then that those who don't know much about downtown Winnipeg also don't know much about other cities either.
There's nowhere to park in Toronto, but there's no demand to tear down buidling for surface parking because people are willing to take the TTC to get to and fro. When I was there for a month my commute was at minimum and hour daily and I rode with many professional folk who did the same. Toronto has even less parking available but yet people don't whine about it.
Winnipeg regularly has lots sitting empty (I'm with Rob on this one, the only time I ever see the library or Winnipeg Square lots full is during a Moose game) and some how it's not enough.
And for Christ Sakes, if you're going to tear down that damned building anyway, build something the area actually does need, say a grocery store. Downtown desperately could use a Sobeys or Safeway down there.
And one more thing. I think part of this parking phenomenon is what people consider to be "Good Parking". If it's not curb side to MTS Centre or Tavern United or Alive (the list could go on) then somehow it's not good parking. Seriously! Walk! Not to sound like a smug bastard, but when I was @ RRC on Princess, nearly every day I walked home to my apartment on Furby Street and Portage Ave, a good half an hour hike. And I'm hardly a specimen of good fitness.
Living in a city where people can drive in 10-15 minutes in any direction has spoiled us into thinking that parking should be just as expedited. There is a great form of transportation that will drop you off curb side...the bus! Going to the Green Day Concert? The 11 from St. James will drop of off in the front entrance. Portage Place? Same deal. We need to think beyond cars and re-evaluate the needs for this city.
In Chicago its hard to find a place to park anywhere and I defy any one to tell me that theirs isn't the urban model to follow.
Tact is free. But the author of this blog (nor I) take handouts.
Graham, you are not the voice of a generation as you seem to think. No need to come across as a pretentious twat to those that don't agree with you. I've been reading this blog for awhile now and have seen how insular your mode of thinking is. Not your ideas (some of which are valid), your actual thought process. Two-way conversations don't exist in your world. You have no time or patience for those with differing viewpoints and that's just as big a problem as those you like to lambast at City Hall (or Destination Winnipeg or CentreVentre).
You also like to bend your reality as you see fit. You claim to be urbanist, but couldn't be happier when new stadium plans were announced for the U of M. You chastise others for not wanting to walk two blocks downtown, but whined in an earlier post about how the parking lot at Kenaston Commons made it too cumbersome to walk store to store. You are a member of the Speak-Up Winnipeg street team, seeking open communication and ideas with the citizens to improve this 'burg, but if someone with a contradictory view voices their opinion, you mock them.
I have to question why I (and others) am giving you too much credit. Who are you? Why do people read this site? Other than someone with an internet connection and a lot of pent up passion that could probably be better used to get laid, you are just an average person posting their thoughts on the internet. This blog is just there and people read it just because.
Just like Winnipeg. We're just there. Always will be. Always were. Build another parking lot. A student who doesn't live nor work downtown wouldn't understand.
"Going to the Green Day Concert? The 11 from St. James will drop of off in the front entrance. Portage Place? "
Yes, because everyone in Winnipeg lives on the west side and it's always oh-so-easy to get anywhere on transit. The reason people drive is because our options otherwise are a joke in this town. Our supposed "rapid transit" model won't change that, as not everyone conveniently lives in the south. It takes over an hour for me to get to work downtown by bus; it takes 20 minutes to drive.
Again, it's this thinking of "well, I do it so should YOU!". Talk with people. Learn about people. It will open your eyes to a world of different realities that don't conveniently fit into the box you've created.
Graham , I rant about the idiocy that is the UofM and a BRT to Fort Richmond as much as you rant about parkades and the inner City.
I am making my point that urbanists in this town are so backwards they can't see the irony of it all.
I don't think you are confused about why the U of M ( Great campus...huh) should be building downtown NOW, you just can't accept the thought and prefer to dismiss it as an impossibility.
I know Leo is not your prof, just meant it as a prof at your university. Another guy who misses the point.
@Graham: I've posted the renderings of the parkade here:
http://reganwolfrom.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/the-grain-exchange-parkade/
@Randy M
If you live in South St. Vital the 14 will get you there in 30 mins, ditto the 55.
If you live in Garden City, the 18 is reliable.
South Pembina? The 62 and 60 both run fairly frequently.
The 10 serves St. B, 19 Serves Windsor Bus. All decent to good bus services.
Now if you chose to live somewhere like White Ridge or Linden Woods which has little to no bus service because there was no demand to the developers to work with the city to have one in place, then that's your own damn fault.
The bus system in this city is far from perfect, but I've taken transit all most every day for the past 13 years all the way across the city, from St. B to River Heights, from South St. Vital to Garden City, from St. James to Tyndall Park no problem. I've seen it from the points of view of people from all those neighbourhoods. Getting downtown on those routes is not hard.
Again, if you live in Linden Woods then that's the bed you've made. As far as the hour long trek to work? My father lived in South St. Vital and worked at the Woodsworth building. It took him 35-45 mins tops to get there on the x-press bus.If your commute does indeed take you an hour here by bus, then guaranteed it'd be at least an hour and a half in a city like Toronto.
@ Randy
Oh but two way conversations do exist on my world. It may appear one dimensional on my blog, but if I wrote all sappy and in "let's talk about this issue!" feel-goodery, would you be more inclined to read it?
Contrary to what people seem to think, I do not come across in real life as I do on my website. To suggest so is only to attack my character without knowing me.
No urbanist in their right mind would suggest that a football stadium belong downtown or in an urban environment in Winnipeg. Some things are suburban by nature. IKEA, for example. And Keanston Commons IS too cumbersome to walk from store to store. That is not my opinion, that is reality and thats why you don't see people doing it. How is it may I ask, that if I am an urbanist, I'm supposed to champion a stadium being built downtown, and proclaim box store parking lots as models of walkability?
Are you sir, suggesting I spend less time thinking about my passions and exercising them by doing something like running a website, and put more time into trying to get laid?
I don't know where this Green Day concert shit comes from, but I find it somewhat entertaining that you are ready to slag me for being one dimensional and not being able to hold a two way conversation, and then openly slag me and accuse me of not being able to listen to people. Even though you only read the manifestation of my opinion and don't actually know me.
Perhaps Dave here can clue you into my personal character.
I also challenge you to find, anywhere amongst my couple hundred of posts, anywhere that suggests you should live as I do.
Graham
Graham is a man of sound character, I can certainly vouch for that personally. What some people forget is that whatever the point of view, blogs are a medium of personal opinion and are utilized to convey a particular belief system and or agenda. A blogger owes it to no one to be accommodating to the opinions of others, but that said I think Graham has been very accommodating. As he said, anyone can start a blog of their own, free of charge which he has done and so can you. His blog is also very popular as his sitemetre stats suggest, so clearly his style isn't revolting people en masse.
Graham
When one considers the distaste of parking it might be worthwhile to additionally look beyond the availability of spaces.
For example, I personally hate the parking compliance industry. I have been towed and ticketed numerous times and for those reasons alone tend to when possible avoid the downtown and the armies of enforcement officials.
Private lots are not much better with all good spaces already allocated and weird signs saying that you can or can't use a particular space at certain times
If you get a ticket from Impark and don't feel they are justified in collecting it then you avoid them forever in selecting a spot.
As to building parking lots - aside from the low cost and fair return- there are very few regulations - you do not need a lot of plan approval or building inspectors or assessment fights and you certainly do not have to deal with irate tenants or rent controls.
My point is that whether you are a builder of lots or a user of lots the toxicity of the environment does change your behaviour
I dread going to downtown Winnipeg for anything other than my day job. Yes, parking is a pain in the ass. if you want to get to where you're going, in a reasonable tim frame and then get going, it is not consistently easy to do.
Not too many folks whop are busy have time to walk from Main to the waterfront, they want to park close to their destination.
"Not too many folks whop are busy have time to walk from Main to the waterfront, they want to park close to their destination."
That is a very sad comment. Main to waterfront is a distance of about 400m. Less than a 2 min walk for an average person.
Wonderful post.
What can we do to help?
Please! Is there an advocacy group I can join?
There must be something we can do other than complain to each other, (though it does feel good to know I'm not the only one frustrated here).
Seriously, let's destroy this myth before it destroys our city!
your not likely to see a major grocery store downtown because 1) the number of customers and their 'basket size' or average spend per visit would be very low and 2) inventory shrinkage or theft is very high. That's basically it. giant tiger has a grocery section thats adequate, and theres also an extra foods nearby.
Post a Comment